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The_Carpathia
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 Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: AGREEMENT of McCain and Obama on Education |
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So much for education being a key issue in the debate, it seems. In
recent speeches to NAACP, we see that ....
....both McCain and Obama support teacher performance pay (opposed by
the unions).
....both McCain and Obama support charter schools (opposed by the
unions).
....both McCain and Obama support NCLB. McCain says he will fully fund
it, while Obama says he will INCREASE funding for it (despite liberal
opposition to it).
....neither McCain and Obama want NCLB to stay the same but plan on
fixing any flaws it may have.
....McCain said he supports voucher programs, while Obama recently was
condemned by the left for supporting government funds being given to
faith-based programs (which...I would assume...would include schools,
unless he is lying about it being ok to give government funds to
religious groups). Indeed, here's an article from May of this year
where Obama SUPPORTED the idea of voucher programs...
http://www2.scholastic.com/browse/article.jsp?id=3749401
....McCain said he supports alternative certification programs (as if
he was the only one to support such). However, Obama's own website
says....
"Recruit Teachers: Obama will create new Teacher Service Scholarships
that will cover four years of undergraduate or two years of graduate
teacher education, including high-quality alternative programs for mid-
career recruits in exchange for teaching for at least four years in a
high-need field or location." This would indicate support by Obama
for alternative certification programs. Thus...both agree, again.
Indeed, Obama says in the scholastic article, above, that he will not
be held be bound by the teachers unions, and his language on the
issues (according to the article) has caused many teacher unions to
NOT endorse him.
So, it wouldn't seem to matter which of these candidates were elected
President, if their words can be believed. They would do the same
things in education, once there.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com |
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Bob LeChevalier
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: Re: AGREEMENT of McCain and Obama on Education |
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The_Carpathia <writingken@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
So much for education being a key issue in the debate, it seems. In
recent speeches to NAACP, we see that ....
...both McCain and Obama support teacher performance pay (opposed by
the unions).
|
Meaningless, since they wouldn't necessarily support the same policies
on teacher performance pay.
| Quote: |
...both McCain and Obama support charter schools (opposed by the
unions).
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Your evidence is lacking that the unions oppose charter schools.
| Quote: |
...both McCain and Obama support NCLB.
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But they mean different things when they say that.
| Quote: |
McCain says he will fully fund
it, while Obama says he will INCREASE funding for it (despite liberal
opposition to it).
|
Unless they say where the money is coming from (and that answer
doesn't include the meaningless "eliminate waste", I don't believe any
politician who says that they will increase funding for anything).
Any increases in funding had better mean an increase in taxes, or the
deficit will get worse, which is unacceptable.
| Quote: |
...neither McCain and Obama want NCLB to stay the same but plan on
fixing any flaws it may have.
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But of course they see different flaws, so that is just attempt to
paper over the differences.
| Quote: |
...McCain said he supports voucher programs, while Obama recently was
condemned by the left for supporting government funds being given to
faith-based programs (which...I would assume...would include schools,
unless he is lying about it being ok to give government funds to
religious groups)
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That assumption has nothing to do with reality. The discussions of
"Faith-based programs" refer to social service programs for the poor.
.. Indeed, here's an article from May of this year
I see two lines about vouchers in that article, and neither says that
he supports them.
<"For example, he hasn’t ruled out private school vouchers, and some say he could return to the idea."
That merely says that he hasn't taken an unflinching ideological
stance against them. But then Obama is trying to end ideological
warfare, so one would not expect him to do so.
<OBAMA: “If vouchers are proven to work], whatever my preconception, you do what’s best for kids.”
The second quote suggests that his preconception is against vouchers,
but that he is willing to be open-minded. Of course, since vouchers
have NOT been proven to work, his statement indicates no changes in
favor of vouchers.
| Quote: |
...McCain said he supports alternative certification programs (as if
he was the only one to support such). However, Obama's own website
says....
"Recruit Teachers: Obama will create new Teacher Service Scholarships
that will cover four years of undergraduate or two years of graduate
teacher education, including high-quality alternative programs for mid-
career recruits in exchange for teaching for at least four years in a
high-need field or location." This would indicate support by Obama
for alternative certification programs. Thus...both agree, again.
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Not all "alternative certification programs" are alike. Obama refers
to HIGH-QUALITY programs, which necessarily excludes any program that
lets someone like you into a classroom. He also requires a 4-year
teaching commitment. That's a pretty high standard. Teach for
America has 75% turnover over 5 years, which is hardly good enough for
Obama.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_2003_Nov_24/ai_110364129
| Quote: |
Indeed, Obama says in the scholastic article, above, that he will not
be held be bound by the teachers unions,
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Good for him. He shouldn't be bound by anyone.
| Quote: |
So, it wouldn't seem to matter which of these candidates were elected
President, if their words can be believed.
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You are clueless.
| Quote: |
They would do the same things in education, once there.
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Your evidence is lacking. Your interpretations of statements has
nothing to do with reality. In short, you are an idiot.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
lojbab@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org |
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